Author Topic: Fun with beans / "This is a copper level dungeon???"  (Read 2637 times)

Dragon

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Fun with beans / "This is a copper level dungeon???"
« on: September 08, 2008, 15:29:25 »
Although we were planning on going to Pendragon Games on Friday, plans changed quickly after talking with Charles on the phone. He was feeling too sick to come out so Chris decided that he'd rather come to my place than go to Pendragon Games. The distance is about the same for him, while access to Coca-Cola and table space are better. Mac arrived right after I got off the phone with Charles and Chris, before I could even finish leaving a voice message for him, but he was fine with the change.

My wife was home and interested in playing a game by the time we were ready, so I suggested Bohnanza. It took a bit longer to play than expected, probably because we hadn't played the game in such a long time that had to go over all the rules again. Everyone had fun. Mac won with 21 gold, if I remember correctly, and Chris got second place. Beth and I finished with a tie of 16 gold.

After that, Chris, Mac, and I played Descent, continuing on with the previous campaign. I had left off escaping through the "red rune door" of the second level in the Caverns of Thul, a "Legendary Area." Mac took over the two warrior characters, Trenloe and Kirga, while I used the mages, Astarra and Carthos. As a way to "speed up the campaign," Chris decided to have us skip the 3rd level of the dungeon. (I'm wondering now if that gives an advantage to him in the campaign. Not that he's trying to weight the game, but it's already going to his side and skipping past the money and treasures that I could pick up from playing one more level before going back to for another "game week" could mean the difference in training before another city gets attacked.)


Although I was expecting for the level to take a little longer than the average ones that I've seen so far, I had no idea that it would take this long to complete. I sent my mages back to town for healing once after they were severely injured, even though it took a while for those two to get back into action. Chris saw this as seriously slowing down the game, which I agreed with then but wonder now if it's not primarily because my characters were not equipped enough to handle the dungeon. After nearly 5 hours of game play we we had only completed 1/3rd of the dungeon. At this point Chris had accumulated nearly 20 conquest tokens while the heroes had gained only 5. We recorded our stopping point, preparing to continue with the dungeon at the next session, but next time we don't plan on sticking around to fight with the Gem Dragon.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 10:01:37 by Dragon »
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TylerChuit

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Re: Fun with beans / "This is a copper level dungeon???"
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2008, 06:55:44 »
You wanna do another level?  Sure we can do another level.  It will get you maybe another 500 coins and 5 or 6 conquest points.  It would also net me at least another half a dozen kills at 2-4 conquest points a piece.  If you think that skipping another level is to MY advantage, then let's play it.  I was just trying to get you a chance to get out of this dungeon to train.  Since you can't train between levels of one dungeon.  I even introduced the new expansions Feat cards mid-dungeon to try to give you an advantage.

Doing another level won't change the outcome of anything I'm doing as the overlord, and it probably won't get you enough XP to do any additional training to what you already can do.

But hey, I don't want you thinking I'm trying to stack things against you.  Your call.

When might this "next session" be, do ya think?
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Dragon

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Re: Fun with beans / "This is a copper level dungeon???"
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2008, 16:36:44 »
I never thought you'd be skipping levels to stack the game against me, I just wasn't sure if the effects had been considered. It was an after thought for me. I think it's pretty obvious that I don't know the game well enough yet and I'm more or less openly discussing ideas. I don't remember being slaughtered in the previous levels, so it just seems like if there's no advantage for me to complete the bottom level of the dungeon, I probably would want to leave before getting to guys that are nearly impossible to beat. It just seems to me that the reason that adventurers would want to stay in a dungeon longer is to build up more experience before the overlord attacks another city.

I think in the case of this last dungeon, I had no way to just leave early without just allowing the dragon to kill the two guys that were trapped behind him. With the armor and hit points that he had, there would have been no way for them to leave without dying. I guess that would have been the appropriate thing to do though? Since killing that dragon was the only way I'd have enough experience points for training, if I remember correctly, I think that's what makes the difference of what my options may have been. I recall discussing the amount of XP needed for training and it was the amount that I'd get from killing the dragon. However, it didn't seem like I got much less for killing other creatures. (Is each and every boss creature worth only 3 XP and other creatures worth nothing?)

Maybe I've been told all this stuff before and just can't seem to get it straightened out in my head. Sorry for the confusion. I was hoping to be able to get through this campaign as a learning experience so that the next campaign would run more smoothly.

I'm thinking that in the future, if a level is worth only 6 conquest points and I've lost 9 or more (150% of the potential earnings for the adventurers) then I should call it a day and leave the dungeon. This way, I have a gauge to tell me when I'm in over my head, since characters can be respawned over and over with no other consequences. Does this sound like a reasonable way to go about determining if a dungeon is worth continuing in, or are there other more important factors?

Exactly when the next session could be, I'm not sure. I'm swamped right now and don't see much potential for a break for a while. I know that Fridays are no good for me for a while. Let me see how next week goes and I'll try to lock something down shortly after that.
"Hello IT. Have you tried turning it off and on again? ... OK, well, the button on the side. Is it glowing?... Yeah, you need to turn it on. Err, the button turns it on. Yeah, you do know how a button works, don't you? No, not on clothes." - Roy (The IT Crowd)

TylerChuit

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Re: Fun with beans / "This is a copper level dungeon???"
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2008, 11:20:25 »
I've been giving it some thought, and I think we should bump the campaign up to the silver level.  There is a description in the rulebook for starting campaigns at higher levels.  Now that we are both a bit more familiar with the basic strategies, this would help level the playing field, as well as shorten the overall time it will take us to complete one campaign.

Basically, it will give us both 100 total conquest points, minus what we've already spent on upgrades and training.  It will also give you 20,000 coins minus what you've already spent on weapons, training and such.  With that you can search through the copper treasure deck and buy any item you want.  You'll also get several more chances to train before the silver level begins.

As a side note, I'm working on a hero reference sheet for training costs and such in the different campaign levels.

To answer your questions, each boss is worth 2CP and 200 coins.  Opening a chest is worth 1CP, or 2CP if you don't roll a treasure.  Activating a glyph is worth 3CP.

One thing you're forgetting is that for the heroes, it's not just about experience, but treasure.  Doing the dungeons also gives you the money you need to train and get better gear.  The overlord only gets experience, so there is a bit of a discrepency when figuring conquest point for conquest point.

Also, you have to figure that if you give up 9CP to me and bail before the end of a level, you wouldn't have killed the boss, so you'd only have maybe 4 or 5CP for your trouble, and you might be giving up a special area with unique rewards.

Again, it's up to you.  I'd be okay with bumping us up to silver level.  In fact, I'd kind of prefer it.
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TylerChuit

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Re: Fun with beans / "This is a copper level dungeon???"
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2008, 11:30:54 »
Oh, and as far as the complaining that you were taking too long and being a pansy by constantly running back to town... that's part of the "antagonizing the heroes into being reckless" that Fantasy Flight recommends in its Overlord tips section of their website.  ;D

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Dragon

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Re: Fun with beans / "This is a copper level dungeon???"
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2008, 11:42:40 »
Wow... I didn't realize they included psychology tips on their website. ;)

The suggestion to go to silver level sounds fine with me. I'm still curious about the treasures as they seem to be rather anticlimactic. Are the "unique rewards" really so impressive that a party should risk everything for them? At this point is seems like I'm gaining more from opening glyphs than anything else. The money that I'm using to buy slightly better weapons and armor that still isn't blocking much of the attacks doesn't seem to be very well spent. Being able to search through the copper deck might change boost my confidence that there are items worth dying for.
"Hello IT. Have you tried turning it off and on again? ... OK, well, the button on the side. Is it glowing?... Yeah, you need to turn it on. Err, the button turns it on. Yeah, you do know how a button works, don't you? No, not on clothes." - Roy (The IT Crowd)

TylerChuit

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Re: Fun with beans / "This is a copper level dungeon???"
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2008, 09:54:44 »
I think that the bottomless backpack is copper level.  There are also boots that give plus 1 movement even if you battle.
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